Hull City’s Finances Show The Downside Of “Ambition”

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16 Responses

  1. Phil in Hull says:

    You are kidding!!! Hull City’s plight is nothing in comparison to the debt of West Ham, Portsmouth, Newcastle, ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and the rest. The only difference is that they have their own stadia. I am sure Stoke City do not have loads of cash and will have remortgaged their stadium against signings. The only clubs that now have decent levels of cash are those that have just had a “sugar daddy” buy them such as Birmingham and Sunderland.

    Hull City do not have “mega rich” owners. They have peope who ave put some cash in and gone on from their.

    Also these figures are from over a year ago- do not include the Premier League incoming money or parachute payments if we do get relegated. So stop trying to whip up undue concern and rubbish towards our club..

  2. Phil in Hull says:

    You are obviously trying to down a smaller club.

    You talk of debts needing to be repaid by certain dates- but how do you know that we do not have the cash available to do this. How do you know that there are not monies available through further investments.

    These accounts are for the season we were in the CCC. We have since brought in significant monies through the Premier League TV deal- occording to many it is over £30M. We have a wage bill of between £20M and £25M – giving a surplus of over £5M from that alone. Also our commercial revenue (from boxes and advertising revenues) is in excess of £10M per year. Add to that the monies from thet sale of Michael Turner and Sam Rickets (approximately 14M between them) this creates monies of around £30M – once we have paid the £12M in loans back this would allow further player trading of around £18M.

    If you want to know where my figures for advertising etc come from- I am an advertiser at the KC – 1 board= 6-10k/season (dependant upon where you advertise) approximately 120 boards at the KC (so between £700k and £1.2M). There are also 30 boxes at £1000 per game (30k per game £570k per season in boxes). Sponsorships raise approx £2M per season for match sponsorships etc. Not including the shirt sponsorship (believed to be £2M per season)- totalling £6M. On top of that the Tiger Leisure store generates approx £1M per year. With further income from Cup monies and extra cash generated from the sales pre-match and at half time being around £2m per season. The figures do stack up- unlike your own…

    The £2m profit may already include the repayment of the debt factored in- until we see the first season of accounts in the Premier League we do not know where we stand.

  3. Sarah says:

    The most sensible article I have seen on the whole Hull City situation recently

  4. Simon Cope says:

    @PhilinHull

    “You are kidding!!! Hull City’s plight is nothing in comparison to the debt of West Ham, Portsmouth, Newcastle, ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and the rest”

    So in essence you are saying that even if Hull City are in financial trouble – and the auditors words “significant doubt over their ability to continue as a going concern” should certainly set alarm bells ringing – as long as there are other clubs out there with bigger problems, journalists and bloggers should concentrate on those clubs and not bother with the Hull City situation?

    I’m afraid your response to this excellent, level-headed article is typical of fans of clubs that are put under the financial microscope on the national stage for the first time. You could class it as belligerent denial, and throw in a does of persecution complex as well. Don’t worry, you’ll get over it! It is actually possible for football fans to examine and discuss finances of other clubs without gloating, or wishing for the worst, which is what you seem to imply is going on here.

    You would be better expending your energies on making enquiries with your club as to the current state of its finances, and why they appear to be so tardy in submitting their accounts.

  5. Martin says:

    Hull City fans in knee-jerk ignorant defence mode shocker!

  6. Michael Wood says:

    You have to love a comment which details all the streams of income into a club and makes a total out of them that totally ignores small matters like paying the tax on that income. It is no wonder the revenue take such a dim view on football clubs.

  7. David Howell says:

    I’ve been spending the last two years wondering when on earth the football financial bubble would burst, as it’s clearly continued to inflate while the broader housing-derivatives-based bubble was bursting.

    Apparently it’s now.

    How many of the current 92 will be going concerns at the start of next season? Fewer than 90, of that I am certain; if the banks really had become significantly less laissez-faire in the last two years (they haven’t), I’d probably be saying ‘fewer than 80′.

  8. ejh says:

    “If this was such a big issue, the BBC and the national media would be all over it”

    Well, they would be if Hull were considered a big club. But in

  9. ejh says:

    If this was such a big issue, the BBC and the national media would be all over it

    Well, they would be if Hull were considered a big club. But in truth, outside a small elite you can all sorts of financial nonsense occurring and nobody beyond David Conn and Private Eye will say a word.

  10. Sarah says:

    We know the club currently has no obvious way of paying of the debts as they fall due as the auditors say that in their report. The fact that the accounts are for the championship season is irrelevant, as when auditors report on going concern it is commenting on what is likey to happen in 12 months from the date the accounts are approved ie to October 2010. If the club did have plans in place, of how they would deal with situation of either delegation or survival, and the auditor thought they were reasonable, then the auditor would not have needed to be so damning.

  11. Steve says:

    It doesn’t matter how good Altidore is, we can’t sell him because we don’t own him. Is the rest of this article equally factually inaccurate?

  12. Mark Murphy says:

    Don’t Hull have an option to buy? If I wrongly assumed they had, my apologies. But with a good World Cup behind him he’d be worth a few bob. One for Mr Pearson to look at?

    BTW: My figures are from Hull’s accounts. I don’t have any great inside info. I just read them and took notes.

    To quote, purely at random of course, “Draft, unaudited financial statements for the year ending 31 July 2009 indicate that the Company (Hull City AFC {Tigers} Ltd) recorded a pre-tax profit of £2m after player trading.”

    If Hull fans don’t think the figures stand up (Hello, Phil), best they let Deloitte know where the mistakes are.

  13. Indifferent of Hull says:

    re Phil’s response

    Where do you get £14m income for Turner and Rickets. General concensus would be aroungd £9.5m. Of this £1.5-2m suposedly goes to Brentford and even then there will be installments involved. So the actual cash coming in in the current season is pretty small.

    Independant figures over the last few days have put the total wage bill at closer to £40m than £20-25m. In fact Hull have the 10th highest salary bill in the premiership.

    Sorry, but these two holes completely invalidate your argument.

  14. Indifferent of Hull says:

    In addition to the previous post – Turners transfer has been declared by City at only £4m. This has caused Brentford and Charlton to complain about lost sell-on revenue and the authorities are launching an investigation to find out whether a deal was done to avoid paying these fees or even VAT etc.

  15. Vindication says:

    Interesting to look back at this article now some time has passed. Bartlett had to sell for £1 after months of protesting he had it all under control. During the due diligence it emerged he had taken over £11 million from the club to fund his property business which is now in “recovery” by RBS. I sympathise hugely with Paul Duffen who had to be the public face of a financial maniac and I now understand why he left when he did. Crying shame that Bartlett tried to make him a scapegoat and some of the dimmer hull fans bought it. Apologies and recognition are due to him and Phil Brown for the way they were treated.

  1. November 1, 2009

    […] Hull City’s Finances Show The Downside Of “Ambition” “Football fans have become better educated in the mysteries of football finances over recent years out of necessity as much as anything else, but just occasionally old naiveties come to the fore. It might just be that they can’t believe that things could be as bad off the pitch as on it at the moment, but Hull City fans are less concerned than they should be about the lack of financial information coming out of their club in recent times, and now that the information has come out and has proved as grim as one may have feared, they still don’t sem to believe that things can be as bad off the pitch as on it; despite the phrase “significant doubt over their ability to continue as a going concern” appearing not once, but three times in a relatively short annual report and statement of accounts for the Tigers’ promotion year.” (twohundredpercent) […]

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