Celtic & Rangers: Old Firm, Old Enmity, New Century

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17 Responses

  1. As a young teenager of Irish descent my patience has worn thin. There is no way we’ll ever be accepeted as equal cititzens in Scotland so long as such media bias is evident. My thanks go to the writer for helping to raise awareness of our plight, but ine most concede you have forgotten to highlight the anti-Irish racist singing which was in abundance at the game from the Rangers end. I was there. I felt the pain when I heard the songs. It’s time FIFA said enough is enough.

  2. Casper Williams says:

    First paragraph demonstrates problems with this article.

    Diouf was called over to talk by McCoist, he didn’t cross the pitch to remonstrate with official or Lennon, who was the one to blame.

    Hard to take it seriously after that, even if it is honest enough to acknowledge its bias and lack of interest in being accurate.

  3. Player 1 says:

    Mark, your article is patheticaly one sided. You don’t even seem pleased to have won the game.

    I don’t know what makes you think the media has been devoid of critiscism for Rangers. You maybe live down south and so haven’t seen some of the Scottish media, but they have been fairly scathing.

    Also you re-tread the tired old Celtic supporter’s motto “I don’t believe in any conspiricies, but…”. Either shit or get off the pot. Does everyone have it in for you? And if so, who is to blame. Who are these shadowy figures of doom who ensure that “Rangers are the Scottish, protestant, ‘establishment’, Celtic the second-class, catholic, underclass” and given Celtics win in the cup replay, why are they making such a bad job of it?

    Paxman’s questions were relevant in the context of the Scottish Government’s Summit, which was intended to tackle the larger problem of sectarianism. I’m not alone in beleiving that sectarianism in Scotland starts in the schools. Do you disagree? Wouldn’t we be more likely to love our fellow man if we weren’t kept apart over 12 years between the ages of 5 and 17.

    If it’s the football you wish to discuss, then I agree that Whittaker didn’t deserve his first yellow (masonic refs, eh). I also don’t think Bougherra deserved his second as I think he won the ball. Diouff’s second yellow, for dissent after the whistle, I can’t comment on as I don’t know what he said, but I’d give the referee the benefit of the doubt on that one as Diouff deserves his reputation as a bit of a hot head.

    Incidently, are you aware that Rangers have the best disciplinary record of any team in the SPL? Or does that fact not suit your agenda.

    That Neil Lennon has received death threats is shocking, and the sooner the culprits are found and locked up the better. The person or people responsible in no way represent the feelings of the vast majority of decent Rangers fans. That doesn’t mean all his actions should be excused, and any suggestion of racism should be treated seriously and investigated accordingly. I hope there is nothing to it, and the police investigation proves that beyond a doubt.

    It’s fair to say though that Lennon’s behaviour over the season hasn’t been great, and he is now looking at another 4 games in the stands, to add to the 4 match touchline ban he has already had. This surely merits some of the critiscism from Scotland’s “holier than thou” newsmen.

    You can of course retread the arguments about Rangers signing policy, never mind the fact that there are many catholic players (inluding Laurie Blyth (1951–1952), Don Kitchenbrand (1955–1956), Hugh O’Neill (1976), John Spencer (1985–1992)) who played for the club before Mo Johnston signed 25 years ago. It is however fair to say that Celtic Football club was formed as a vehicle for Catholic young men, and as such has sectarianism at it’s core not that Brother Walfrid formed the club becuse he was worried “about the dangers of young catholics meeting protestants in their place of employment or leisure”, and how he believed that “a catholic football club could keep young catholics together in their leisure time, free from the temptations of protestants and protestantism”. Also not how Celtic did not have a non-RC Director on the board until 1996, and refused club legend Jock Stein a place on the board for the very same reasons.

  4. Yer Maw says:

    Give it a rest Brendan, you’ll have my reaching for the Kleenex in a minute. If your poor wee Irish descent sensibilities have worn that thin then do us all a favour. Go and live in the land you hold so dear. I think you might find yourself even less welcome there than the land you live in, should you choose to transport your IRA loving ways from Celtic Park to Ireland. The truth of it is Brendan, the land you long so much to call home doesn’t want you and your shower of pseudo terrorists. Get used to it son. Sob sob.

  5. robbhoys says:

    Casper, if Spit the Dog (Diouf) was called to the touchline by McCoist, why did he see fit in elbowing the Celtic physio who was running onto attend the injured Izziguire who had previously been felled by Whittaker?
    Could he not simply have went over to his own dug out and discussed whatever matters where being raised by his own management team without feeling the need to (yet again) become embroiled in something that could have easily beeen avoided?
    Yet another example of selected viewing / thinking / belief (delete as appropriate) from the Rea-rangers support. Amazing stuff – keep saying it long enough and it will become fact you know!!!!

  6. jocky bhoy says:

    “Incidently, are you aware that Rangers have the best disciplinary record of any team in the SPL? Or does that fact not suit your agenda” Is that before or after the umpteen cards? Anyway I refer you to your masonic referees comment ‘o)

    The press reports were also frothing about the number of arrests inside the stadium at the replay game. 34! It turns out only 9 of these were Celtic fans – our 53,000 fans got less cautions than the Rangers team!

  7. Yer Maw says:

    Well said Jocky Bhoy. That would kind of piss on the author’s assertions about Rangers being the “Establishment” club as well, would it not? Cheers m’dears.

  8. Mark Murphy says:

    Hi guys and gals,

    Sorry to interrupt. Just a quick note to Yer Maw…the mention of Rangers being the “establishment” team is followed by the phrase “I’ve never bought all of that” which means…well…what it says.

    Righto, carry on…

  9. Mick says:

    It’s always the other lot isn’t it?

  10. Sean Thesheep says:

    Brendán, you need to get a f*cking grip of yourself. Anti-Irish racism? are you serious? You lot invaded our country then decided to blow us up and expect to be treated like normal human beings? It’s nothing to do with racism, but rather the fact we don’t like to be invaded or blown up, I’m sure most people around the globe would share those feelings.

    Your people were taken in by the brits when the famine hit Ireland and the thanks we get is Anti-British drivel from you lot and shouts in support of the IRA from Celtic park every week.

    Then there’s the plastic paddy, the guy who’s never set foot on Irish soil, who’s great great grandparents knew a guy who came from Ireland, who’s more Irish that the Irish themselves yet scream Anti-Irish racism at every opportunity.

    Ireland has a long, rich and complex history, yet a small number of you feel the need to only remember the bad times, how the big bad brits treated you all those years back. It might be time for these people to move on, get a grip and playing the victim card all the time.

  11. Steviemc says:

    Sean, go and read your history, who invaded whose country?

    Get a grip, fud!

  12. FFFFFC says:

    ***Twohundredpercent is aware that the Celtic vs Rangers rivalry is an emotive subject. We would, however, request that comments on the subject are constructive. Abusive comments will be deleted without being published and the comments section will be closed if we deem it necessary. We’re sure it won’t be.***

    Delightfully high-minded and hypocritical warning there. Publish an article written by the paranoid and dare us not to treat it with due reverence.

    Starting the piece by whining about bias and then spending the rest of it blaming everything on one side of the argument – this is probably the most childish piece of writing I’ve ever seen on this usually excellent blog.

    And I’m not in the slightest bit taken in by the author’s claims to be a neutral party. Only someone born in that Old Firm mentality could be so locked in that shuttered mindset as to imagine that the saner parts of the country care a toss about whether you’re Catholic or Protestant argument. Paxman pursuing a sectarian bias against Catholicism? Can you even hear what yourself saying that? If not, possibly it’s because you’re being drowned out by the hoots of laughter from those of us in parts of the UK where the Enlightenment wasn’t just something that happened to other people.

  13. FFFFFC says:

    P.S. This is why Celtic and Rangers will never be allowed within a million miles of the English Premier League. We respect your football and we respect your Scottishness but we don’t want your religious crap and persecution mania. Look at a city like Manchester. Half the inhabitants are of Irish descent and are usually tediously proud of it. But they define themselves by the city they live in, not by what their ancestors once were and they don’t imagine that they’re still fighting ancient wars.

  14. Ian says:

    So, I read it and re-read it, and I can’t see where the author claimed to be neutral. But never mind.

    As for the “Delightfully high-minded and hypocritical warning”, as you put it, that wasn’t written by the author, that was added by me, and there were sound reasons for it.

    When emotive subjects like this are raised – and I don’t think anyone would try to argue that this isn’t an emotive subject – I think that the writers of this site are entitled to be protected a barrage of abuse from people that disagree with them. It’s happened before, certainly, to the point at which people have been libelling each other in the comments. And the thing is, that short message works – I don’t think it’s impolite, but it has become necessary at times. The replies above make good cases for either side of the argument and I haven’t had to delete a single comment. There are plenty of forums and blogs on the internet where people can go to shout and scream at each other. Not here, though.

    If we plain make mistakes, then we will normally correct them and thank the person that points them out. Having differing opinions, on the other hand, is a different matter. I happen to disagree somewhat with Mark, but the specifics of this are by the by. It’s not about the specifics of this particular post. I don’t want the comments section descending into a slanging match, and that’s all. We all do this for nothing. I don’t think that’s too much to ask in return.

  15. Chris P says:

    “P.S. This is why Celtic and Rangers will never be allowed within a million miles of the English Premier League. We respect your football and we respect your Scottishness but we don’t want your religious crap and persecution mania. Look at a city like Manchester. Half the inhabitants are of Irish descent and are usually tediously proud of it. But they define themselves by the city they live in, not by what their ancestors once were and they don’t imagine that they’re still fighting ancient wars.”

    This is the most sensible comment on here. I lived in Edinburgh for 5 years, yet never went to an SPL match as I couldn’t be doing with all this sectarian b*llshit, which to be fair isn’t limited to just the Old Firm.

    I think a better analogy than Man Utd v Liverpool would have been ummm, almost any other club rivalry in Scotland (other than Hearts v Hibs) where this kind of childish behaviour almost never takes place.

    But of course the Old Firm are gracing and enhancing Scottish football with their mere presence, and are only worthy of comparison to “big” teams, not those of the country in which they actually play.

  16. FFFFFC says:

    Ian, I’m aware that the warning was posted by someone other than the author. However, it’s not a matter of differing opinions but rather of differing planets.

    If someone posts an article on here from Cardiff, Liverpool, London, Edinburgh or Bristol, whether I agree with it or not, I don’t have to ditch a couple of centuries of Enlightenment thinking to get where the author is coming from.

    What will we be getting next on this blog? An article from Iran telling us that the 2012 Olympic logo is a Zionist plot to brainwash the world, followed by a warning from the editor that all comments must be respectful and treat the matter seriously?

    I assumed that your call for moderation was intended to warn people off posting sectarian insults and any sentence containing the words “Fenian” or “Billy”. I didn’t realise that we weren’t allowed to take the piss out of the views that had been expressed.

    No-one is going to win an argument with the sectarians after so long. The dialectic just isn’t part of the Old Firm vocabulary. The best way to combat their medieval nonsense is to ridicule it until they’re too embarrassed to keep coming out with it.

  17. Ian says:

    “Are there any site rules?

    The only thing that we ask is that you keep the comments decent and that you disagree with us (which you are more than welcome to do), you keep your criticisms constructive. All messages from people that haven’t posted messages on here before are moderated before being approved. Abusive messages will be deleted without appearing on the site, so you may as well not bother.”

    The above message has been on our “About” page since our move to WordPress in July 2008, and it isn’t going to be going anywhere soon. Mark is old enough and big enough to respond to whatever criticism is thrown at him. And as for this:

    “What will we be getting next on this blog? An article from Iran telling us that the 2012 Olympic logo is a Zionist plot to brainwash the world, followed by a warning from the editor that all comments must be respectful and treat the matter seriously?”

    Yes, that’s exactly what I’m going to do.

    Christ.

    And on that note, the comments on this subject are closed.